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On 3 Jan 99, at 21:03, whizby wrote: > THEN both pipes make a bend accross the back of the engine where they are > sleeved into another set of pipes which is theheader from the #2&4 > cylendars and the flange to attatch the muffler Yes, I understand (although not everyone did.) Some of the cheaper header systems were indeed made like this. > so i'm supposed to put another set of muffler clamps where they sleeve > together?? > there aren't flares on the collector to hold the little asbestos donuts. No, you can't use the std VW donuts there. As you point out, there's nothing for them to seal against. You might be able to find some small U-bolt/muffler clamps that will work there, but the best bet would be to get them welded after they are installed. Most people just leave them free, but I suspect that they eventually have trouble with them like I did. Jim - ******************************* Jim Adney, jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, Wisconsin, USA ******************************* ------------------------------------------------------------------- List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list or mailto:help@vwtype3.org