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Kinda of long..... I think I am going to have to side with Jim Adney and Steve Ayres, and take issue with Phil's "poor design" statements about the beetle or T3 for that matter. The Beetle is one of the best example of a product meeting its design goals. That is the reason it have endured the years better than any other car. It was NOT designed to be flashy, stylish, or sporty. It was, and is, a reliable, affordable means of transportation. I participated in a study team at Ford looking at cars for emerging markets. The lowest cost, most reliable, easy to maintain powertrain - You guessed it - aircooled rear engine with a swingaxle manual transmission. It was not the quietest and it did not give the best vehicle dynamics. Lowest cost instrument panel that met the information needs of the driver and the car - a single integrated instrument that included speedo, fuel gage, and idiot lights for oil and electrical. Sound familiar? I put forth that VW "designed" the beetle (and the T3 for that matter)to meet a market need and that they did it better than any automaker out there. The fact that VW had the quality and service to back up the design only helped them to make sales and to enhance the reputation of the car. How many other cars can you go to the factory and get a front beam or a longblock or a door or a swingaxle transaxle in 1998 and bolt it onto your 1969 version of that car? A few years ago, Ford made a big deal about the F150 truck passing the beetle in total model sales (21 million plus). Ford has indeed sold more than 21 million trucks with the F150 badge on them, but that is about the only thing common between the '49 and '98 F150's or the '70's F150 and today for that matter. This is not the case for the beetle. Many parts are still the same from '68 to today. I will allow that there are not many if any parts common from 49 to 98 with the beetle, too. But, a '49 beetle and '98 beetle are recognisable as siblings. Not many would distinguish a 49 Ford from any other trucks of that vintage. OK, I will stop..... John Jaranson 71 FI Auto Fasty ------------------------------------------------------------------- Unsubscribe? mailto:type3-request@vwtype3.org, Subject: unsubscribe