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No Phil, my problem isn't with the quality of a VW. Everyone (sic) always whines about what sloppy pigs American cars were/are, and if every car on the planet were European, life would be perfect. My point is; that this is a romanticised box of turds. I am not specifically familiar with the Dauphine, though I have seen them. The 2CV, LeCar, *any* Citroen made before the Maserati-hybrid (which was a *wicked* machine!), SAAB 90's Fiat 128's, or pick your car (caveat: Read this: car that the average European buyer would purchase) from the 60's/early 70's made in Europe. The 'romantics' claim that a Morris Mini (sorry Dave) is some ground-pounding, corner-eating, tire-peeling monster that is so exciting, statues in the parks that you blast by (so quickly, no doubt, that you can't see said statues) are so aroused in your passing, pigeons have new, previously unused perches. This, at least in these cars' initial design, is hogwash. I've driven just about all of the Euro-cars that were built after about 1968, and most built after '60. The staggering majority of these cars' suspensions are *not* the LeMans 24-hour racers that everyone seems to think that they are. They are tiny, busy, jiggling, buzzing economy cars. It seems as though everyone compares the 64 Ferrari GTO with a 1976 Buick Electra 225 Estate Wagon (a vehicle with a *dry shipping weight* of over 5500 lbs!) and says with amazement, 'Do you *see* how horrible American cars are?' I say nuts to that. That Buick (and most American cars of that ilk) are dross. Garbage. A VW Beetle, instead of being some 'water-bed suspension,' 'kitchen-of-your-dreams interior' type critter, doesn't corner for anything (especially the live-axle pre 68's); and *every* *single* *tiny* abberation in the road surface is translated to you from the floor, seat, pedals, steering wheel and anything else you happen to touch. These are *different cars*. Made for *different purposes*. *Both have their faults.* And neither the 2CV or the Electra Estate Wagon are what they're cracked up to be. *I* would probably, if given only the choice of those two, pick the Renault, but even a 1970 Pontiac Catalina (let's not get to 68 Camaro RS's or GTO's), and I'd have to forego the 'pleasure' of that 'European Road Machine.' I'm ranting again, aren't I? > ---------- > From: Philip Dillard[SMTP:dillardp@edu-suu-lifac.li.suu.edu] > Reply To: Dillard@suu.edu > Sent: Monday, 23 November 1998 6:58 > To: type3@vwtype3.org > Subject: Re: [T3] Boy am I about to make enemies! > > Dave Hall sez: > > >I doubt there are many here who will get worked up about the > >subject, so I shouldn't think you've hurt any feelings! > > Well, perhaps I will, although doing so is certainly not my > intention. > > I argue that the original VW was a poor design that survived and > prospered because the manufacturer clearly understood the importance > of assembly line quality control, of the continuity of the product > line (although this was an illusion--the last beetle had only one > part in common with the first), of establishing well stocked and > staffed dealerships, and...of course...clever advertizing. > > When I bought my new 1957 beetle, some of my friends owned > contemporary foreign and domestic cars: > > The Rennault Dauphine was a nifty-looking 4-door sedan that failed > miserably in all the areas where VW succeeded. It stayed but a short > time on our shores. > > The Thunderbird of the 1950s was a dandy design...so Detroit made it > bigger, longer, and heavier with 4 doors. No product line continuity. > Yucksville, USA. > > In short, although antiquated in design, the slow, noisy, cramped > Beetle could be bought with the confidence that it was well built, > that an extensive dealership stood behind it, and that it was > reliable and economical to own and operate. > > So, my thesis is that the VW was poorly designed but so well > executed that enough of them have survived so that we "cultists" > can enjoy driving, maintaining, and discussing..and arguing > about...them.. > > I welcome folks to shoot down my thesis about "poor design", but > please don't amputate on my head. I have owned VWs since 1957...and > love 'em. (If anyone wants to kill me, please see that I'm buried in > my squareback). > > Phil > dillard@suu.edu > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------- > List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list or mailto:help@vwtype3.org >