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Well, your starting at say 70F and getting it up to a working temp of roughly 160F, if you cant get it up quickly it will wear out faster, with the Thermostat Id say 3-5 minutes, without it roughly 10 -15 minutes. Its not years, its miles and how its used... in town short trips will really suffer without a thermostat but long highway trips will be easier on it. A good stock engine should last roughly 125Kmi, that goes down to 60-70K if there is no thermostat (roughly) Keith Top Notch Restorations topnotch@nycap.rr.com 71 Squareback 65 Notchback "El Baja Rojo" 65 Squareback "Eggcrate" 87 golf "Winterat" 93 RX7 "Redstur" -----Original Message----- From: BOB2TYPE3S@aol.com [mailto:BOB2TYPE3S@aol.com] Sent: Monday, June 05, 2006 9:40 PM To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: Re: [T3] Number 4 issues.. In a message dated 6/5/06 8:56:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, topnotch@nycap.rr.com writes: << Generally, as a rule of thumb it cuts engine life roughly in half, but it would be worse in the Northern Climates than the southern ones but even down south you really need them operating. >> What would you use as an outdoor air temp change then? I'm just asking, because my Notch's engine doesn't have them, and I've had that engine for over 10 years, and I got it used. It's an OE VW 73 bug engine though. But... I use the car in the summer only, where the coolest temp might be 40 degrees. Bob 65 Notch S w/ Sunroof and IRS (Krusty) 71 Square, now a 2 seat Roadster, pics can be seen at; http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2977 and now has a dead T-3 with D-jet FI engine. : ( ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~