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> i'll jump in here and say that i don't always. does this mean the relay is > gone/going, or the pump going? and could this be the cause of my non-idling? This is going to sound simplistic, but have you REALLY checked your fuses? Don't laugh! A friend got stuck in her fastback, it wouldn't start. I took my tools and went over everything, and nothing seemed out of order in the engine compartment, so I turned to the fusebox. None of them were blown, BUT the one critical fuse wasn't making contact in its little holder. I pulled each one, shined up all contact areas with an emery board (sometimes spinning them in place and wiping off the corrosion with your thumb is enough) and after doing the one for the FI/fuel pump it started. This problem has happened in Betty a couple of times, but with the lights. Twice I pulled/swapped bulbs, checked wires, and cleaned things with no results. Both times all it took was a twist and a pinch on the appropriate fuse to fix the problem. From now on that's the first thing I check when I have an electrical problem. Good luck! Curt 70 square 66 rectangle ------------------------------------------------------------------- Search old messages on the Web! Visit http://www.vwtype3.org/list/