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On 4 Jun 2005 at 11:19, John Jaranson wrote: > OK, I put in the new switch and everything is back to normal. Starter > spins better than it has in awhile. The old switch is very rough in > its action. The new one is nice and smooth. I suspect it was getting > worse and worse and finally just couldn't pass enough current to spin > the starter. I will be adding a solenoid into the system later this > weekend to save the switch from having to pass all of the starting > current. relays: The starter solenoid is, amoung other things, a relay. This relay, however, has other duties, so it still takes a fair amoung of current to operate it. The fact that this current has to run all the way up to the steering column sometimes makes this a problem, because the long run leads to voltage drop in the wire, which may make the solenoid not work. In your case, you've already replaced the switch with an aftermarket one, and, IIRC, your switch is mounted in the rear seat kick panel. This means that your wires are a LOT shorter than the OE wires, so voltage drop is much less of a problem. Since the other reason to add a relay is to save the OE ignition switch contacts, which you aren't using, I'd say just forget it. It's really no benefit to you. You MIGHT want to watch out for an aftermarket switch made for 6V service, since this would be rated for more current, and it might last a bit longer for you. Flywheels: VW used 2 different clutch diameters (180mm & 200mm) and 2 different ring gears (6V & 12V.) (When we talk about 6V or 12V flywheels, we are talking about differences in the ring gears, as Russ explained.) Just to keep this all interesting, early cranks used a simple gasket between the flywheel and the crank while late ones used a rubber O-ring. There are 8 possible combinations of these, but VW only ever used 4 of them. Okay, checking the microfilm, I find that type 3s got: 180mm clutch plates (in 6V flywheels w/non-O-ring cranks) up thru the end of '62 200mm disks (in 6V flywheels w/non-O-ring cranks) up to late '66 (dual carb engines up to T 0 210 166) 200mm disks (in 6V flywheels w/O-ring cranks) in late '66 only. This is a rare item. 200mm disks (in 12V flywheels w/O-ring cranks) from '67 on. You must have one of the '66 versions, and you should be able to tell which from your engine number, since I believe you are still using the original parts. If you wanted to change to a 12V starter, you would have to use a 12V ring gear to mate properly with it.. This conversion is straightforward IF AND ONLY IF you already have the late O-ring crank. If you do, you can install the latest flywheel on your crank, reset the end play, and then grind away the extra material inside the bell housing that is required to clear the slightly larger 12V ring gear. The details on this conversion are covered in the Bill Fisher book, as well as in numerous other places. Starters: A 6V starter MUST be used with a 6V flywheel, and any 12V starter will work only with a 12V flywheel. The center to center shaft spacing is the same, but VW changed the teeth so they would mate up. The starter shaft diameters are different, however, so if you change starters you must change bushings, unless you use the AT starter. The old bushing won't interfere with the AT starter. 6V vs. 12V] The main advantage is just as you stated. Because the voltage has doubled, we get the same amount of power with 1/2 the current. This makes it easier on everything, especially the switch contacts. There is a bonus in that reduced current leads to reduced voltage drops, which are doubly less important now, because we now have twice as much voltage to start with. (ie, consider how important a voltage drop (loss) of 1V would be in a 6V system compared to a .5V drop in a 12V system.) -- ******************************* Jim Adney, jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, Wisconsin, USA ******************************* ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~