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On 14 Apr 2004 at 13:41, Robert Hornstein wrote: > Thanks for all the FI Relay help. I do know most of the tests and the relay > under the seat is fine Okay, good. > The relay under the Steering Column may be fine as well If all the wires > were plugged in! The three Red wires are where my Question lies The order > position of the two red wires may be mixed up and the third red wire may be > Black/Red One of the five wires was not plugged into the relay at all. There would have been a third red wire only starting in '70, when the heated aux air regulator was introduced. I don't know what your red/black wire is, but it doesn't belong on this relay. If you're doing a lot of trouble shooting, best to disconnect the points wire from the coil to keep from damaging the coil or points. One red wire comes from the fuse box where it gets power. I don't remember whether this wire only gets hot when the key is ON or not. The other red wire goes to the fuel pump. You should start with a voltmeter and see if you get 12V to the relay. Then check to see if the relay clicks. If it doesn't click, then check to see that one of the wires in the white plastic connector (pull it off to do the measurement) has 12V any time the key is on. That 12V should come from the back seat relay. If the 12V is there, but the relay doesn't click, try grounding the OTHER side of the relay when the key is on. That should make it click. If it does, the relay is okay and it's only the wire to the brain, or the brain, which is bad. It is much more likely to be the wire than the brain. If everything is fine up past the relay, then you have to chase the wire back to the brain. Go to the engine compartment and find an inline connector (2 wire) up against the front bulkhead. It will be just to the left of center and may still have a nylon cable tie wrapping it to the harness. This is the connection between the ground wire coming back from the relay and the FI wiring harness. With the key ON, short this connector to ground. If the FP relay clicks, then everything is fine back to here. The FI wiring harness carries the wire the rest of the way into the brain. The brain provides the ground for this relay when conditions are satisfied. When the engine is not turning over, conditions are satisfied ONLY during the first second after the key is turned on. Note that the brain gets its ground from one of the FI wiring harness wires that connects to the engine case, and that the engine case gets grounded via the ground strap at the nose of the tranny. Every link of this chain must be there for things to work. You have to chase the chain until you find the broken link. Hopefully it's just a loose connection somewhere which you will find and fix easily. > The car hasn't been running since the previous owner got the car back from > the Body Shop. Front-end work was done at that time Back in 1983 You'll also want to check the wiring to the FP to make sure it is okay. > The car is a 1969 Auto and I do put it into Netural to get the starter to > spin. And that's correct for the ATs up thru 71. It might also be worthwhile to post your location in case there is someone close to you who could help. This can all seem daunting at first, but it's pretty straightforward once you understand it. Like most such things, it's nice to have someone there to walk you thru it in the beginning. -- Jim Adney jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, WI 53711-3054 USA ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org