Re: 411 2-door sedan (was: [T3] Fuel Injection's NOT Fuel Infection...)

[Jens Vagelpohl <jens@dataflake.org>]

<x-flowed>>> do you have any proof of that? i had not heard of the planned
> > 6-cylinder models  before. One of the prototypes was a bigger
> > 6-cylinder station wagon (bigger than the 411 models) with slightly
> > different lines, but that was dropped pretty quickly.
>
> I've spoken with a couple people that worked for VWAG in the mid-60's, 
> and
> they are the ones that told me.  Really, if you look at the setup, 
> there's a
> lot of "vestigal" evidence that it was the plan.  First, look at the 
> tranny
> nosecone.  Unlike all other VW's, it is on the bottom.  You could then 
> argue
> that this was simply because there was no tunnel in the car.  But, why 
> is it
> exceedingly long?  Line it up with a larger 5-speed 901 and it makes
> sense...  And, look at the engine bay.  It is exceedingly long (even 
> has
> room for that plastic cooling airbox thing), and has much, much more
> vertical height than a pancake T4 actually needs.

this is a really interesting perspective. i never thought of it that 
way because i'm not a darksider (and never will be i think ;) , so i 
never make these kinds of connections.

the engine bay in the sedan is large, but it is quite cramped in the 
wagon because you have none of the extra height. i believe it is as 
cramped as the 1500/1600 squarebacks are.


> And, if you think about the marketing, it is perfectly inline with the 
> 914
> project.  They're a beautiful symmetry... where the 914 was a 
> replacement
> for the Type 3 Ghia and 912, the 411 was VW's new luxury car and 
> Porsche's
> 4-seater 911 (there were 4-seater 911 prototypes... have several 
> pics... but
> they are really ugly, and so never made it :-).  They both went 
> forward in
> 1968, then 1970 in the US.

another really interesting thought. i have regular contact with simon 
glen, author of "Volkswagens of the World". he is writing a new book 
about the type 4. we both agree that the actual history of the type 4, 
including marketing plans, development and prototypes, is basically 
lost. even attempts to get information from volkswagen or the 
volkswagen museum people are unsuccessful. it's a shame, really. i 
don't think we will ever know with certainty what they thought back 
then.


> > this is incorrect, the 2-door sedans were part of the standard lineup
> > and came here through the normal sales channel. it is true that 411
> > 2-doors (as opposed to 412 2-doors) were very rare because they were
> > only sent to the US in a single model year (1972).
>
> Why'd they sell them in 1972, but not 70, 71, 73, or 74?  Odd...

well, the 411 officially started coming to US dealers in april of 1971, 
making those 1971 model year cars. for some unknown reason, however, 
they did not sell the 2-door sedan until the 1972 model year, which 
started in august 1971. then, in august of 1972 ('73 model), the 411 
was facelifted and renamed 412. it was sold through the end of the '74 
model year.

so in essence there was, as far as the US market is concerned, only a 
single model year for the 411 2-door sedan. after that it was the 412 
2-door sedan.


> > Yes, I know.  But still, finding a T4 manual that still works isn't 
> > all that
> common.

not having had a manual 411/412 yet i might be off, but it seems to me 
that the biggest problem is the clutch rather than the transmission 
itself. it is near impossible to get any clutch parts at this point, 
especially the hydraulics.

jens

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