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RE: SV: [T3] type 4 trans --> the T4 engine debate


My comments below.
   Toby Erkson
   air_cooled_nut@pobox.com  <-- Please use this address for email
   '72 VW Squareback 1.6L bored and stroked to 2.0L, Berg five-speed
   '75 Porsche 914 1.8L, ORPCA member
   '95 VW Jetta GL 2.0L, boringly bone-stock
   Portland, Oregon, http://www.pobox.com/~toby_erkson/


> -----Original Message-----
> I would not suggest using fuel injected 1.8 Typ 4 Variant 
> engine eventhough
> it would be a direct swap.

Why?

> Other larger problems include constant oil leaks (a 'free' 
> factory option not listed in any M-code list produced by VAG),

No different than any other air-cooled powerplant I've witnessed.

> regular valve seat failures

Under the hands of a good engine builder this shouldn't be an issue as there
are ways to stave off this problem.

> the expense of rebuilding a Typ 4 engine compared 
> to a Typ 3

A stock T4, with more stock hp, will quite likely last longer than a T3
beefed up to match.  Price for a rebuild goes beyond initial layout, volks.

> and then the hassle of trying to install a Typ 4 muffler under 
> the rear apron
> of a Typ 3.  It can be done however.

And once done it's no longer a (potential) hassle.
 
> The cost of new heat exchangers is a
> bit frightening though.  A new pair here in Finland costs a mere $700.

Cheaper in the US.  And if you take Jim A's advice and recycle a used pair
is an even better deal!

┌Hw@dvantages with this conversion should be (as I see it 
> >2. Better reliability: Oil filter, and a more robust construction.
> 
> That is arguable.  Oil filtration is, IMHO, overrated (sorry 
> Toby).

If it was then VW probably wouldn't have gone with a full flow filter and
the additional costs in working this in.  You must admit a full flow filter
is far better than a screen.

> >4. A lot cheaper per hp, than a hi-performance built 1600 engine.
> 
> Not true.  You could easily build a higher performance Typ 3 
> engine for
> less money which is more reliable than a bone stock, rebuilt Typ 4 mill.

Debatable.

> Compare some prices, like the difference between Typ 1 and Typ 4 main
> bearings, cams, heads, etc.  And in the first place, one  would have to
find
> a usable Typ 4 engine.  Then fix the induction (carbs or FI), then
> fabricate this and that.

Since the Porsche 914 uses the T4 engine finding a competent engine builder
at a reasonable cost isn't going to be hard to do.  These engines aren't as
rare as people think and they have a pretty good after-market -- bigger than
any stock T3!

> Yes, it can be done, and made to  work but the
> costs will be approximately double when comparing stock 
> 1600cc rebuild vs 2000cc.

Please clarify 1600cc rebuild vs 2000cc.  Stock T3 vs. stock T4?  Or stock
T3 vs. built T3?

> but there are a lot of IFs involved in doing it so that you
> could have as much reliable fun as with what Volkswagen gave us in the
> first place.  

Okay, that type of talk takes you out of the Dark Side category!  :)

> They had Typ 4 engines already in 1966 and 
> never gave it to the Typ 3

Well, that's because the T4 was a different car :)  Looking at VW's current
selection of cars shows that they look different but under the skin they're
very similar, if not the same in many respects.

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