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Gents and ladies, Thanks for all the imput on the starter probs, will check tonight. To top all this wonderful happenings off...This past Sunday I, and a good friend, took off for Ogden Utah on a quest, for the holy grail. Okay, actually a promising sounding auto square at a paultry $250. The conversation over the phone was...The car has no reverse and needs a battery, but could make the 7 hour trek to my home in Idaho. Off we go...from a block away I new it was a loser. Started inspecting...rusted out floors, huge puddle of oil, bigger puddle of tranny fluid and completely oxidized paint. There were springs for seats and wiring hangin' all over the place. I asked, "what's wrong with it?"...the answer, "dude, it just sorta stopped." "Was there a clank, moan or groan?" "I was driving it and it, dude, like died." What a waste of time...I could have had my starter problems a day earlier and had them fixed. The good news...My buddy is still my buddy even after the 14+ hour trip. And he's not into VW's. Brian 65 Notch auto w/air and heat 67 square w/soon to be fixed starter 67 square w/potential and limited time