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Hi all:From: type3-d-request@vwtype3.org Reply-To: type3-d@vwtype3.org To: type3-d@vwtype3.org Subject: type3-d Digest V2004 #133 Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:46:52 -0800 (PST)
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type3-d Digest Volume 2004 : Issue 133
Today's Topics:
RE: [T3] FI for Carbs [ "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD ]
RE: [T3] T3/T4 Engine [ "Gamboa, Gary" <Gary.Gamboa@sylvani ]
RE: [T3] FI for Carbs [ "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD ]
[T3] One more CV-joint question [ Daniel Baum <daniel@type34.info> ]
RE: [T3] More New Members [ "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD ]
Re: [T3] FI for Carbs [ "Steven Ayres" <comwest@att.net> ]
RE: [T3] FI for Carbs [ "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD ]
Re: [T3] FI for Carbs [ Daniel Baum <daniel@type34.info> ]
RE: [T3] FI for Carbs [ Aaron Clow <variant_1600-vwtype3@ya ]
Re: [T3] FI for Carbs [ BOB2TYPE3S@aol.com ]
RE: [T3] FI for Carbs [ John Benedetto <jbenedet@unm.edu> ]
Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:37:07 -0800
From: "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM>
To: <type3@vwtype3.org>
Subject: RE: [T3] FI for Carbs
Message-ID: <28EC294302210E4A93A2CEC55BE7045AA597B8@copper.insideocsd.com>
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The right side injectors had flare tube fittings to which I could just slide off the old hose and replace it. The left side the hose is part of the injector and therefore was told I needed to replace them to replace the hose.
-----Original Message----- From: wfoh8x9 Martinez-Ortiz [mailto:wfoh8x9@msn.com] What was wrong with the injectors that could not be fixed??? And I am also a "carb guy" but do share the list's opinion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 10:43:01 -0500 From: "Gamboa, Gary" <Gary.Gamboa@sylvania.com> To: <type3@vwtype3.org> Subject: RE: [T3] T3/T4 Engine Message-ID: <8A7D68BB08929F479DDACCEA2D1CB4B4D619D9@damail1.sylvania.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
The guy swears its a Type 3 1600, but is this possible out of a '74?
-----Original Message----- From: Gamboa, Gary Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:25 PM To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: RE: [T3] T3/T4 Engine
I have a chance to pickup a ' 74 engine cheap. Its a manual FI, but I have an AT.
Seeing that this is a T4, would it be worth it, parts hoarding wise, to get it?
Gary '71 FI AT
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 07:47:34 -0800 From: "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM> To: <type3@vwtype3.org> Subject: RE: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <28EC294302210E4A93A2CEC55BE7045AA597BA@copper.insideocsd.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I don't need to smog it. Too old. I didn't even need to smog it when I registered it into my name. So I assume it won't need a visual inspection either. Rich & Nicole (Daughter) Our 1970 Squareback http://community.webshots.com/album/72473544Gtbnrs
-----Original Message----- From: Jim Adney [mailto:jadney@vwtype3.org]
I don't think a converted car can pass Cal vehicle inspections. That's every 2 years; is that right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 17:46:00 +0300 From: Daniel Baum <daniel@type34.info> To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: [T3] One more CV-joint question Message-ID: <403F5828.3000700@type34.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Hi all,
My drive shafts have a little bump on them, obviously to help seal the end of the boot. Does this bump go inside the boot (in other words, do you have to pull the thin end of the boot over it?), outside the boot (touching the end of the boot to block it off), or under the thin end of the boot (so that the clamp is directly over it)? None of the manuals seems to have this info. All I could find was that late model shafts have two bumps and the thin end of the boot goes between them.
Tomorrow, weather permitting, I am finally going to put my driveshafts back in.
BTW, last weekend I replaced my engine mounts. The result is dramatic. the engine is _much_ higher, and all of the old rattles are gone! It sounds almost refined, at least by comparison.
Here are some pics:
Before:
http://link.mywwwserver.com/pipermail/type34_type34.info/attachments/20040224/7fbc6fa3/attachment-0002.jpg
After:
http://link.mywwwserver.com/pipermail/type34_type34.info/attachments/20040224/7fbc6fa3/attachment-0003.jpg
Thanks,
Daniel Baum 1969 type 34 automatic.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:02:40 -0800 From: "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM> To: <type3@vwtype3.org> Subject: RE: [T3] More New Members Message-ID: <28EC294302210E4A93A2CEC55BE7045AA597BB@copper.insideocsd.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
What do you mean by this? Rich & Nicole (Daughter) Our 1970 Squareback http://community.webshots.com/user/schlegelr
-----Original Message----- From: David V.N. [mailto:rmcevoy1@twcny.rr.com]
... snarls throatily with what is a basically stock Djet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:00:38 -0700 From: "Steven Ayres" <comwest@att.net> To: <type3@vwtype3.org> Subject: Re: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <008101c3fd4a$ee98bba0$486a480c@stevenay> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
RichS=> I feel like I was just beat up by the FI coalition of America :-)
Yeah, I can see it feeling like that. But what you're seeing is that a very
strong consensus has developed here through years of shared experience,
discussion and testing. I'm sure I can speak for all in saying that nobody
thinks badly of you for taking what you rightly identify as common advice,
and we're looking forward to seeing that car doing well for you. Many before
you have come with the same questions, and many more have come dealing with
the problems created by these ideas, many of them much deeper into it
dollar-wise than you are now.
=> Stock dist is better than the 009 dist?
The 009 was evidently designed for a stationary engine, and was picked up by
the racing crowd in the '60s as a performance mod. It didn't last long in
that context, but the aftermarket kept selling it on the basis of legend.
Its advance curve is inappropriate to a street car, and its lack of vacuum
advance causes an acceleration hesitation famously known as the 'flat spot.'
Current build quality on these distributors is also poor and inconsistent.
=> Stock coil better than Blue coil?
OEM coils don't fail. Blue coils do, sometimes. Again, build quality and consistency is an issue.
=> The stock FI is the best performing set up?
If you want to build up an engine beyond 1776 or so, the FI will be left
behind, but for stock applications it's dependable and easier to maintain
than carbs. If your car was carbed to start with, I'd advise you to keep the
carbs, as your system would be already integrated. The cost and hassle of
changing systems is considerable either way, and not worth it.
=> is the 20% re-stocking charge worth returning everything?
Yup, or you can consider selling it on Ebay, you might make a little profit!
Bear in mind also that you're in Type 3 land now, and most VW people are only familiar with Type 1/2 engineering. Type 3s are different in more respects than meet the eye.
Steven Ayres, Prescott AZ '66 Big Ghia
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:08:16 -0800 From: "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM> To: "Daniel Baum" <daniel@type34.info>, <type3@vwtype3.org> Subject: RE: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <28EC294302210E4A93A2CEC55BE7045AA597BC@copper.insideocsd.com> content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Yes. My car was originally bought in Germany, Shipped to Sweden, then to the US. I bought it from the original owners' son. Rich & Nicole (Daughter) Our 1970 Squareback http://community.webshots.com/user/schlegelr
-----Original Message----- From: Daniel Baum [mailto:daniel@type34.info]
Also, as far as I know, FI Type 3s were never imported here on a regular basis so any that are here are either special orders or personal imports. I have actually only seen one FI Type 3 over here - a museum-standard 1973 fastback.
Basically though, I believe in returning the cars to as close to stock condition as possible, so I would leave the FI on a stock FI car, given the choice.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 18:12:24 +0300 From: Daniel Baum <daniel@type34.info> To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: Re: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <403F5E58.4070003@type34.info> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Oops, sorry, I didn't make myself clear. By "here" I meant Israel.
All Type 3s sold in the US from 1968 had FI.
Daniel Baum, 1969 Type 34 automatic
Schlegel, Richard wrote: > Yes. My car was originally bought in Germany, Shipped to Sweden, then to > the US. I bought it from the original owners' son. > Rich & Nicole (Daughter) > Our 1970 Squareback > http://community.webshots.com/user/schlegelr > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Baum [mailto:daniel@type34.info] > > Also, as far as I know, FI Type 3s were never imported here on a regular > basis so any that are here are either special orders or personal > imports. I have actually only seen one FI Type 3 over here - a > museum-standard 1973 fastback. > > Basically though, I believe in returning the cars to as close to stock > condition as possible, so I would leave the FI on a stock FI car, given > the choice. > > >
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 08:24:52 -0800 (PST) From: Aaron Clow <variant_1600-vwtype3@yahoo.com> To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: RE: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <20040227162452.20425.qmail@web20726.mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
--- "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM> wrote: > The right side injectors had flare tube fittings to > which I could just > slide off the old hose and replace it. > The left side the hose is part of the injector and > therefore was told I > needed to replace them to replace the hose.
Not true. The flare tube fittings you're seeing on the right side injectors are most likely what you'd find if you *carefully* cut off the metal grommet on the left side injectors that's attached to the worn fuel hose.
If you cut that grommet off, you'll see you can easily take off the hose and the tube underneath will be flared so you can attach new hose & clamp it on... Good as new...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 11:34:08 EST From: BOB2TYPE3S@aol.com To: type3@vwtype3.org Subject: Re: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <131.2a8aca6b.2d70cb80@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steven wrote:
>Bear in mind also that you're in Type 3 land now, and most VW people
>are only familiar with Type 1/2 engineering. Type 3s are different in more
>respects than meet the eye.
Absolutely! There are more differences below the surface than most know. It's
almost like the differences between a bug and a bus. Both built by VW, but
different as night and day. A lot of the t-1 crowd can't understand why some of
the things they can do to a bug don't apply to a t-3, and vice versa. The
type3 was originally built as the top of the line model (at the time), and as
such, got the best parts to start with, with improvements along the way. The t-3
got any improvements before the bug, ghia or bus too. Unfortunately, the t-3
was built in lower numbers, so we don't have the large following that the
bug/bus crowd gets.
Bob 65 Notch S w/ Sunroof
71 Square, Now a 2 seat Roadster, pics can be seen at;
http://volksrods.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=2977 or http://photo.starblvd.net/bobnotch
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 09:34:51 -0700 From: John Benedetto <jbenedet@unm.edu> To: type3@vwtype3.org, Daniel Baum <daniel@type34.info> Subject: RE: [T3] FI for Carbs Message-ID: <240431281.1077874491@dhcp-208-0204.unm.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline
Rich -
Nice looking car! Sounds & looks like a great father-daughter project, too! Too bad about the rust & the amount of bondo you're uncovering, though. If that is the worst of what you're facing, I am sure it will turn out great!
Anyway, Daniel's comment about "not that many imported here" pertains to HIS location, which I believe is Israel, not USA. This list is quite global, moreso than many others I am on!
While I don't know the numbers, I thought that ALL T3's from '68-on in the US were fuel injected (but I know some list member DOES know the numbers, and will correct me if I am wrong!). Daniel's site, if you are curious is: <http://www.type34.info/>. He has a type34 Ghia, which is a SHARP car!
Oh, and btw - I have a '72 Squareback sitting in the driveway, but have not yet had time to touch it. :-( It is crappy neon green poorly painted over orange (and the orange is showing through in many spots!). My neighbor acros the street told me she opened her curtains the day I had it delivered and exclaimed "OH MY GOD" to her husband. (I found out that same day SHE is the person who called the city on me when I had a partially dismantled Bug in the driveway. She is also trying to foster support to create a homeowner's association in my 40 year old neighborhood. My only saving grace is that she dislikes my immediate neigbor more, since they park their cars on their lawn!)
My square appears to be a salvage vehicle, along the lines, I think, of a junkyard buy someone got running. *AND* it _has_ been converted to dual carbs, but I think they are the solex, not webers. After being on the list for several months, I kinda wish it was still FI! I am struck with a mixture of excitement & fear on what I face getting it running. But the Convertible Super Beetle is probably in line ahead of the Squareback, in terms of which one is on the road first!
Best of luck to you and Nichole!
- john in Albuquerque
--On Friday, February 27, 2004 08:08 AM -0800 "Schlegel, Richard" <RSCHLEGEL@OCSD.COM> wrote:
> Yes. My car was originally bought in Germany, Shipped to Sweden, then to > the US. I bought it from the original owners' son. > Rich & Nicole (Daughter) > Our 1970 Squareback > http://community.webshots.com/user/schlegelr > > -----Original Message----- > From: Daniel Baum [mailto:daniel@type34.info] > > Also, as far as I know, FI Type 3s were never imported here on a regular > basis so any that are here are either special orders or personal > imports. I have actually only seen one FI Type 3 over here - a > museum-standard 1973 fastback.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org