Re: [T3] Newbie--Car Won't Start

[Jim Adney <jadney@vwtype3.org>]

On 20 May 2003 at 1:10, Chris J Valade wrote:

> another friend's fiance, who is a mechanic, recommended: he
> said to, simply, unplug the lil boy and connect it to the car battery
> directly with alligator clips and wires, or whatever, and that I could
> even try a 9V bat--I tried both, and both caused the EFP to do nothing. 

The car battery test is a good one, but the 9V battery won't have nearly the 
amperage necessary to make the pump move. I'm assuming that EFP stands for 
electric fuel pump.

> Then when I had mentioned the problem I was having at Autozone the guy
> said it could be my starter

But the starter was working, wasn't it?

> I have to apologize since I didn't specify that I have an AT not an MT,
> so her foot slipped off the accelerator since I don't have a clutch. 
> With my car you need to press on the accelerator all the way when you
> start it and then keep it at a low hum while it warms up...although I
> have a feeling that this isn't exactly normal and is a symptom of
> something I need to get fixed, am I right on this?

You're right.

> I'm living in Henderson, Nevada and the car is in Las Vegas (the two
> cities are touching and are close enough so that few know exactly where
> one begins and ends).  
> 
> The mechanic I mentioned above who told me how to test the EFP (same
> thing that Leon suggested) should be coming down to look at the car with
> me tomorrow, and if he can't help me figure it out then I will go through
> with everything in Muir on the engine not starting and what was
> recommended here.

Keep in mind that there are VERY few mechanics around today who have any idea 
of how this system works. As good as they might be with modern cars most of 
them will have no idea what's going on with this car, so take their advice with 
a grain of salt UNLESS they were working as a mechanic on these cars in the 60s 
and 70s.

> Today I tested the EFP I just bought with a 9V (I wasn't in the mood to
> lug the battery out of the car, what can I say? I'm kinda burned out
> since its fun to work on the car, but frankly, only when I see some
> sort of progress/results=\  ) and I saw spark and it whirred for a
> brief moment only the first time I tried it--I took the power off the
> EFP and back on 3 or 4 times.  Is that a good sign or does that mean
> that EFP has almost had it as well? 

It means that you just ran down the 9V battery. That's a good sign for you, bad 
for the battery.

> After I get it started I'm going to do a complete tune up and get all the
> little knicks worked out (such as adjusted and bleeding the brakes--the
> pedal goes half way down before the brakes catch; fix the accelerator
> pump and/or heat riser since it accelerates at a crawl after a complete
> stop.

They have neither. You should try to find a good deal on the Bentley manual:

Volkswagen Official Service Manual
Type 3 Fastback and Squareback 1968-1973
published by Robert Bentley, Cambridge, Mass, 1974
ISBN 0-8376-0057-X / LPV 997 383 / VSQU
(excellent book, complete and well written)

The brakes probably just need to have the rears adjusted. If the car's been 
driven lately the rest might be okay, or you may have a big job ahead of you. I 
find that almost all the old type 3s I buy need the brakes completely rebuilt. 
They are generally in very bad shape.

> Some other little questions, some related to this and others to when I do
> the tune up: would a dead EFP cause my engine to make any sort of an
> unusual noise?

No

>  Do my brakes (I believe I have disc, but I have to check)
> require organic brake fluid?  Muir mentioned looking for organic, but
> everyone I've talked to didn't even know that such a thing existed, but
> when I looked it up on-line I got the impression that synthetic could
> ruin certain brake systems.

You have front disk brakes. All brake fluids are synthetic. Most are related to 
anti-freeze, but some are silicone based. You can use either, but you should 
not invest in the silicone until you know that everything is okay, otherwise 
you'll probably end up wasting it. Buy anything that meets the DoT-3 standard.  


> Would fuel injector cleaner be harmful for my car because of how hot
> it burns, or is it alright to use it?  And if it is alright, would it
> be okay to use it while also using leaded fuel additives, or should I
> use one at a time?

I recommend that you not bother with either. You're just wasting your money.

> I noticed I have a short in my electrical system (a spark when I put
> the ground cable onto the battery) and that it is from fuse 12, and I'm
> thinking it is the CD player since whenever I reconnect the battery the
> CD player makes a little noise as it would when turning on...is this a
> problem that I should fix, or is it expected? 

There are several things which can be drawing current even when you think 
everything is off. The clock, the interior light, most modern radios. The CD 
player is fine unless its clock displays the time even when the key is off. If 
it does this, it's mis-wired and is drawing enough current to run the battery 
down in a few days of non use.

> With the starter, there are two wires coming from the direction of the
> battery, one which ends in an eyelet and was connected to the positive
> post of the solenoid, and another which comes out of a larger wire and
> is a push on connector that goes on to the relay...I'm pretty positive
> that the eyelet one is the positive lead from the battery...so what the
> hell is the other one?  Especially since the instructions I found
> discussed a push on lead from the battery. 

The large eyelet is from the battery and the small push on connector is from 
the START terminal on the ignition switch. The latter is the one that sends the 
signal for the starter to operate.

-- 
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

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