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<x-charset iso-8859-1>Shad, I have installed some home made air in some old trucks and just want to see what happens if efficiency is raised a bit with an old type pump. I have been to those air conditioning forums on the internet and hear about all of their experimentation of illegal freon substitures. I also argued the point that hydrocarbons based refrigereants were as explosive as the gas in a cigarette lighter or the butane bottle in my kitchen or the propane tank in my garage. I have all three in all three locations. Then they asked me how many time has any of these exploded with a causual spark or intentional spark. It has a very narrow air ratio to ignite. R-134 has a ignition point also not truely inflammable. In their experiments they said that hydrocarbons carried and mixed much better with oil so lubrication with standard dino based was better. They also went on to say that the pump pressures could be dropped 50 lbs to 75 lbs and cool down below freezing at the vent within a few seconds. I can get my original Freon based R-12 for 3 dollars a can in Tijuana at my local NAPA or AUTOZONE, they are displayed in can pyramides on the floor and is terribly illegal to pass it through the USA border, must be filled on the Mexican side. The non Flouro alternative is just for experimenting or ??? This intriged me so I decided to see if I can experiment too, You can say I am an illegal type of guy that plays on the edge. They did mention high density parallel flat tube condensers and copper pipes that will disipate the heat and further require less compression since the condenser and the long copper pipes disipate heat and help liquify the gas. That forum did mention that the Sanden compressor 5 or 6 cylinder were the best and did not suffer black death that is common with the cheaper units especially the Ford units. These type of compressors like the Sanden use teflon or some kind of plasitc or teflon seals and would break down during overheating or slight lack of lub . This would create a black slidge that would circulate inside the system, clog the filter and those problem prone orifice tubes. This problem is more common to Fords than any other system but a specialist will tell you that this is common in any system with the newer modern pumps, Sanden quality prevents this. I cannot install a Sanden on my bracket since it makes the pump mount low in back of the fan shroud and out of the way. The bracket mounts on the exhaust head bolts and the fan shroud. If I placed even the smallest Sanden, I would have to place it too far out and cause me to modify the air cond crank pully too, causing an additional side upper load to the crank because of the leverage. If I modified the bracket to hold the Sanden correctly then I would have to remove the oil based air filter and put something of lesser filtering quality. The Sanden would be nice though. I tried a San Diego company that is dedicated on installing air conditioning to Bugs and Karman Ghias to see if they can install an alternative pump to my engine without modifying the filter, they could not. Do you know of any tiny 5 to 6 piston pumps out there ? The 5 piston probably uses the same energy to turn but it is much more uniform using 5 smaller pistons in a rotary fashion, the one or two banger (Techmesh or York ) place good pressure then let go, that is why it is less efficient and less smooth. Since I have a old fashion piston pump , I need to enhance the rest of the system to comensate and even make it better to the higher pressure of the R-134 system. It will kind of look stock when done. I will let you know how it goes. LEON MARTINEZ 1969 SQUAREBACK EFI/AUTO 1967 FASTBACK PROJECT SAN DIEGO AND TIJUANA ------------------------------------------------------------------- Search old messages on the Web! Visit http://www.vwtype3.org/list/ </x-charset>