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Jim - I guess that I am thinking about off the pan because that way I know what shape the entire car is in. As I have been told from others that have completed it you will be shocked at what may need attention. I would hate to do a restoration just to find later that I will have problems that I could have avoided. Then again, life is short. Cheers - Wilson 69' Square << I've never done it, so I've never seen a real advantage. I suppose that if you had one where the pan was rusted out and you wanted to weld it up, or swap pans, it would be advantageous. >> ------------------------------------------------------------------- Too much? Digest! mailto:type3-d-request@vwtype3.org Subj=subscribe