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found my problem(s)...after a couple hours under and over and around the car, i found a battery cable that was only corroded in the middle )-: and, this is my very long 5 ft cable...eeeegad. so, after a new cable, contact cleaning and finding a very poor ground where the VR bypass was, it is all better now and i even solved the vibrating tin problem on the 1st attempt (at least something went right today). thanks again for letting me vent. -- Brian--\x/64 Notch & 67 Fastback http://www.geocities.com/menacefye/invasion.html Parma, Idaho: Home of the 2002 "Type 3 Invasion" Aug. 17th and 18th ------------------------------------------------------------------- Search old messages on the Web! Visit http://www.vwtype3.org/list/