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Here's a tip or two on keeping mufflers under your car longer, Both these ideas are not mine originally but are worth passing on. 1) On duals and singles, the first thing to do is make sure there is a mounting tab (like a few have suggested) to support the outer end of the muffler. If there isn't one there originally, it is a poorly constructed cheap POS system. Any good supplier would have that there, any cheap one won't 'cuz it costs too much to add. One indicator of the quality right away. At the inner ends, where the two tubes comes out of the mufflers and bends going into the collecxtor flange, weld a plate, sort of triangular shaped, to reinforce it. This will be about 6 to 8 inches wide and maybe 5-6 inches deep and lays on top of the tubes and goes all the way to the flange.. That will double the life of that area of the muffler system. My 2nd Berg 1 5/8" dual (The 1st died in this area and was repaired twice) has a big "U" shaped piece that wraps around the tubes and fully enclosed this area and is incredibly strong. I won't have one break there again. 2) A way to help arrest the rust out on these babys. No paint will do it by itself, and ceramic will slow it down and be beautiful, and very spendy! What I have seen work the best, though, is a roofing zinc strip. It is used to kill moss on roofs up here in the rain belt and is quite effective at prolonging the life of the muffler shell. This car I have been watching up here has had the same muffler on it for like 10-12 years! The owner, some engineer type, wrapped this zinc strip around the mufflers and then baling wired it in place, ugly- yes. effective- yes. Would I do it? Yes, but not on my nice cars, just the daily commuter. just another 2 cents, Tom http://home.att.net/~drsowatt/index.html ------------------------------------------------------------------- List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list or mailto:help@vwtype3.org