Re: cooler seal Poll

["Jim Adney" <jadney@vwtype3.org>]

On 1 Mar 00, at 18:32, Bernard Seront wrote:

> I was puzzled (regarding past discusions on the list on the subject) when I
> dismantled my engine (71 Notchback, fuel injected) to find these 3
> "spacers" on the bolts (I will call them spacers instead of seals here as
> this is I think they purpose). They are metal, contain no rubber or
> compound part at all, and they clearly avoid over compression of the 2
> usual cooler to case seals.

Yes, these sound like the spacers, about 3mm thick. There are 
also flat washers which were just intended to go on TOP of the oil 
cooler; these were only about 1mm thick. There was a recent 
thread on RAMVA in which someone was asking about spacers on 
their type 4 engine. It turned out that they had gotten confused and 
tried to put the flat washers between the case and the cooler rather 
than between the cooler and the nut where they belonged. 

[Aside: type 4 engines never used spacers and they use the same 
late 10/10 seal.]

All this is confusing, though, because your engine (10mm/10mm) 
should not have had any spacers between the oil cooler and the 
case..

> The seals I found on my engine were of the wrong style (I guess): black
> with a 10mm/8 mm hole, although the engine is dual relief, and the oil
> cooler definitively has 10 mm holes.

The 10mm cooler has the 311 part # stamped on the top to the 
right of the oil pressure switch boss and it ends with a "B". This is 
visible with the engine in the car. The early cooler is not marked.

> On another side I bought a standard "1300,1500 and 1600 cc engine gasket
> set" (Made in Brazil, no brand name, 111 198 007 AF): I got 2 sets of oil
> cooler seals: the thick 8 mm ones for older engine/cooler, they are red;
> the thin 10 mm ones for dual relief case/10mm cooler, these are green.
> I also got two of these seals directly from my local Wolkswagen dealer (021
> 117 151 A,  after looking at the part list, type 3 section, with the
> clerk). These ones are 10 mm, identical to the ones in the Brazilian engine
> gasket set but red. The part list and diagram on the computer (if VW could
> make that available on CD ...) did show some spacers on the bolts (it is NLA).

Sounds like the colors are getting confused. I hope people aren't 
just making these seals in all combinations of colors now, because 
that would make this situation even MORE confusing.

The VW microfilm DOES show these spacers for all years, but this 
is where I believe the microfilm is in error. the engines I have 
worked on used these spacers only with the taller 8mm/8mm 
seals. This is consistent with the geometry of the parts since the 
8/8 seals are ~3mm taller than the 10/10 or 10/8 seals and the 
spacers are ~3mm thick.

> Now I checked everything on my case and oil cooler:
> - With the spacers on, the new seals are slightly loose, it is impossible
> to tell if this would leak without pressure testing. I could rotate the
> seals with the tip of a small screewdriver. This looks too loose for my taste.
> - Without the spacers : the seals are clearly over tightened. Furthermore
> the torque needed to have the oil cooler seating correctly on the case is
> too high for 6 mm bolts, I cannot imagine it being right.

This is puzzling. One thing that I HAVE seen are late 10mm/10mm 
seals that were too hard. These did not want to compress. Could 
that be your problem? I agree that you should NOT be able to 
rotate the installed seal with the tip of a screwdriver.

> When I put back the engine together I will certainly instal the spacers. I
> will file them to get a correct seal.
> On a side note both the Haynes and the Bentley manuals warn not to
> overtighten the oil cooler seals, as this would leak, and both talk about
> the spacers for both the early (8 mm) and the late (10 mm) oiling system.
> The only exception being the 10/8 mm adapter seal to use with a combo early
> case/late cooler (or vice versa) and NO spacer.

Yes, but if you look at the 10/8 seals and compare them with the 
10/10 seals you will see that they are the SAME thickness, while 
the early 8/8 seals are thicker by the thickness of one of the 
spacer washers. Since the 2 thin seals are the same thickness 
they need to both be compressed the same, hence no spacers.

Thanks for the reply. You've obviously paid good attention to your 
situation.

-
Jim Adney
jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, WI 53711-3054

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