RE: [T3] American models only on list?

["Jim Adney" <jadney@vwtype3.org>]

On 26 Feb 00, at 23:26, A. P. McIlwraith wrote:

> J. Adney wrote:- There are NO oil cooler stud rubber seals, but there ARE
> 2 oil cooler seals. Early coolers used 3 metal washer spacers, but Herman
> specified a late (dual pressure relief) case which doesn't use these.
> 
> I will gladly send the org [or any member who shows a modicum of tolerance
> of international participation] a scan from a British published workshop
> manual showing the location of the five oil seals so once and for all [he
> lives in hope] such absolutist, ignorant statements will not be 
made. 

Inspite of your protestations to the contrary, there should be no 
RUBBER parts around the oil cooler studs. There certainly are extra 
rubber washers in the gasket sets which could be mistakenly installed 
around those studs, and installing them there (they are for other 
engines, other locations, other years) could well lead to leaks.

I don't care where it has been published, British, German, Croat, or 
USA. Any such statement is simply mistaken. I have no doubt that one 
can point to an engine that is put together this way. I have 
certainly taken apart engines that were mis-assembled; with type 3s 
it is the rule, not the exception. The VW factory assembled engines 
were all done consistently, however, as follows:

Very early engines (62-?) used a beetle cooler with a right angle 
adaptor. I've never seen one of these engines, so I can't comment on 
them.

Middle engines (64?-69) used 2 thick stepped black rubber seals with 
8mm bores and  metal spacer washers on the studs. If rubber washers 
were substituted for the metal ones then this would explain how these 
could be overtightened, deformed, and caused to leak.

Late engines (70-73) used thin stepped rubber seals with 10mm bores 
and NO spacers. The OE ones were black, but current stock is red.

There are also 8mm/10mm adaptor seals which will mate a 10mm case to 
an 8mm cooler (or vice versa). These are usually green and are thin 
and stepped, so you must NOT use any spacer washers with them. 
Unfortunately these come in a kit that includes the spacer washers, 
although I think the instructions that come with the kit make it 
clear that the spacer washers are not to be used in combination with 
the adaptor seals.

This topic comes up a lot. It is a source of a lot of confusion and 
even the Bentley manual doesn't get it completely right. I suspect 
that most of the confusion out there stems from the fact that up thru 
69 the type 1 cooler and seal arrangement was completely different 
from ours; after that we use the same seals (type 4s, too.) 

Most mechanics see 100 type 1 engines for every type 3 that they get 
(have to) work on. The end result is that the next person down the 
road finds the thermostat linkage missing (couldn't figure out how it 
went back on) the distributor drive gear in the wrong orientation, 
and the oil cooler leaking.

While I don't discount the possibility, I don't think this is a Down 
Under vs. the rest of the world issue. There are sound engineering 
reasons NOT to use a rubber spacer here since there is nothing to 
seal, a cheap, sound design already existed, and a compressible 
spacer would make the seal dependent on mounting torque, hence 
undependable, as you have already correctly noted.

Over 30 years I have done little work on type 1s, tractors, or race 
cars. I seldom offer opinions on these since I don't feel that I have 
much to back them up. My experience with type 3s is extensive, 
however. 

In the past you and I have disagreed on a few other things. In some 
of those cases you have proven your point and I have agreed (the 6V-O-
ring flywheel question, for example.) I respect your opinion and 
understand your certainty, but in this case I will stand by my 
position that there should only be 2 rubber seals under any type 3 
oil cooler.

-
*******************************
Jim Adney, jadney@vwtype3.org
Madison, Wisconsin, USA
*******************************

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Unsubscribe? mailto:type3-request@vwtype3.org, Subject: unsubscribe