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Thanks for the info, I was looking at new exhausts myself. Did you use the fresh air tubes at all and did they fit? That would be my only reason for going with the Berg setup. I've got some steel tubing and elbows that I've cobbled together for heater box connections on mine, it works, but ain't great. Were any instructions included? Berg is usually good about instruction sheets. I've always used both the copper locknuts and the metal sandwich-type exhaust gaskets on mine, and have not hi_K roubles. I've had plain nuts either rust up or come loose and the straight asbestos gaskets have always blown out. I use anti-sieze on the copper locknuts and studs and they always come off easily, although I've been living where we don't get a whole lot of salt on the streets. I had a lot of troubles with flange gaskets blowing out, the flanges on the Bugpack stuff aren't thick enough and bend. I made up my own sandwich gasket out of some scrap copper sheet and haven't had any trouble with that since. On Tue, 25 May 1999 11:08:56 -0400, you wrote: >Hi everybody! (Hi Dr Nick) > >Shopping for a new exhaust, and out of curiosity and hopefulness for better quality, I ordered the Gene Berg system for type 3. It's on and has been around the block a few times, so I thought I'd shove some observations down the collective gullet in case anyone is considering the same setup. > >The cost was $109, took a week to get it to me. Total cost was about $125 with prepping and paint. They will ceramic coat it there prior to shipping if you want to pay to have it done, I didn't ask how much. > >Things I like: >The muffler came unpainted, spared me the hassle of sandblasting it prior to applying hi temp flat black paint (VHT Flame Proof, from the VWFLAPS). They also included some nice tips on how to properly cure hi temp paint. >It feels very sturdy, no flex or bounce like my former extractor (EMPI), and I like the fact that it has a strap that goes all the way around the muffler to support it. >The muffler is low enough that it clears the rear skirt. My old muffler would hit it. >Came with head port gaskets (asbestos, not metal sandwiched asbestos) and the flange gasket, plus shiny nuts and bolts. >They put some candy in with my packing list. > >Things I didn't like: >The extractor came painted (primed?). Why they ship mufflers unpainted and not the extractors, I don't know. It took a lot of time and all of a 75 pound bag of sand to blast it clean. The work seems to be paying off though, several short trips aróý‘¸ n and a trip down the highway and it hasn't burned off yet. It eventually will because rust will form somewhere, but maybe I've added some time to it's life. >The permanently mounted fresh air tubes were such a hassle I cut them off. You gotta be an octopus to get it all together, and the mounting rings scratched up the paint around them, potentially ruining all the work I put into it. >The pipe coming off #2 (or is it 4?) is veeeerrrry close to the rubber intake bellows for the cooling fan. So close that I can smell it burning. There is room to put the pipe further away, I wonder why they didn't. Probably to make it all rigid. No doubt there's a big written diatribe somewhere about how you MUST do it this way yada yada down at Berg. >The shiny nut and bolt for the support strap was too short, I used a different one. The strap bolted to a tab welded to the pipe, I expect this will eventually break off just like my old one did. >The crush rings and clamps for the heater box ends were not included, though they say you can use regular ones (with modification, Berg pipes are larger diameter). > >The noise level is about on par with my old system, not loud, but not OEM quiet either. Nothing wrong with that. No improvement in performance, other than what you would expect from having a solid exhaust as opposed to one with a big patched hole in it. No change in oil/head temps. > >Side bitch: Those damn 12mm copper lock nuts for exhaust studs. I tried using them the last time I put my exhaust on, and while they weren't rusted or corroded, the studs were. 3 of the four exhaust studs came out with the nuts. I went back to regular 13mm non locking nuts, and I'll save the 12mm's for my oil filler tube. > >I don't regret buying it, but for half the price I'll probably give the 4 tip a try next time. Especially since the painting went so well. We'll see how it looks in two years. > >I make no claims at being an expert, I'm just a guy who has screwed up enough stuff over the years to know the difference.w€¸r ervations are to be taken for what they are worth to ya. > >Curt >70 sb >66/71 busses. ------------------------------------------------------------------- Search old messages on the Web! Visit http://www.vwtype3.org/list/