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PhilD=> I argue that the original VW was a poor design that survived and => prospered ... That's not much of a thesis if you don't back up *why* you think it's a poor design. At the end of the day the Beetle was and remains the most popular (measured by cumulative sales) automotive design ever produced. How does one go about setting a good-to-poor scale for design, what criterion do you employ, that's more important than sales success? Further, you have to look at any design in context. In the Beetle's case that was the late 40s and early 50s, and I'll challenge you to come up with an automobile from that period that better achieved its target design parameters. That VW continued (and continues!) to make them when all other makers were constantly redesigning, all the while adapting as much current technology as suited those parameters, speaks very highly of the company's confidence in its design. And when VW wanted to expand its market upscale, it didn't abandon the downscale market it had practically cornered for more than a decade, it came up with a new line based on the old success -- the Type 3s. I think it probably really comes down to details I don't like or you don't like, utterly apart from the needs of the Beetle's original market. No, the Beetle wasn't a Rolls or a Ferrari (or even a Studebaker!), but it met perfectly the needs it was designed to fulfill. That to me bespeaks an excellent design. Your serve! Steven Ayres, Prescott AZ '66 VW top-of-the-line ------------------------------------------------------------------- Too much? Digest! mailto:type3-d-request@vwtype3.org Subj=subscribe