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Several people wrote to clarify the red needle question, thanks to all. Since this post was the most complete, I just wanted to fix a couple of dates on the later styles. > Here's the scoop on needle colors > Grey Face Gauges (late 61-69 model year) > Red: EARLY (61-63? methinks) cars, before the S line of Square or Notch was > even introduced > White: 64?-69 cars. Can also be a faded cream color due to age etc. Grey faced gauges were -71, with a change of retaining springs for 71 only. > Black Faced Gauges (70-74) Black faced gauges were 72-3, using the same retaining springs as 71. > I don't know, I've never really looked > Remember that all three gauges (or two in early N model cars with no clock and > a factory gauge delete in it's place, kool) would always have the same color > needle, And that EVERY gauge VDO ever made for Volkswagen has a month and year > stamped on the back. I hope this helps. Someone around here had a 71 (I think) fastback that didn't come with a clock. Just had that strange little dummy insert in there. Does anyone know what this stripped down version was sold as. I believe this was a US car, but I don't recall ever seeing such an option at the dealers here. Jim - ******************************* Jim Adney, jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, Wisconsin, USA *******************************