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In a message dated 11/12/04 10:11:27 PM Central Standard Time, jadney@vwtype3.org writes: << My impression was that even the shortest ones needed to push thru the material they were fastening enough that there would still be a head above the material when finished. I thought that the "head" on the central mandrel was a couple of mm high. I suppose you could grind that down some, however. >> Couldn't you remove the "nail" from the pop rivit, and squash the body of the rivit down like a solid rivit? Then it would be very flat. I know I used this method when I replaced the outer window scrapers on my Notch. I think the hard part of this would be finding something to hold the rivit ( a bucking plate) while it's getting squashed. I know the glass would have to be out of the frame for this to work too, but that shouldn't be too hard, should it? Just kicking around an idea. : ) Bob 65 Notch S w/ Sunroof 71 Square, now a 2 seat Roadster, pics can be seen at; http://volksrods.com ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~