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hi many thanks for that jim it had me roaring with laughter it strikes me as just plain dangerous to drive in cali i will stick with the autobahn at 190kph there is traffic law here in germany and it is enforced rigourously mainly due to the revenue it generates for each stadt. the "volvo driver" bit had me in tears there are some absolutely terrible countries to drive in here in europe but at least most of them observe the fast slow lane rules and dont overtake in the slow lanes this is so dangerous . there is a trend here in germany towards the roundabout and to be honest the germans are terrible at roundabouts ! for me comeing from the uk i am totaly at ease with them my test runs in my cars involve specifically going to the two new local ones we have here it generally involves me getting round it no time at all wilst takeing in open mouthed germans wondering what they should be doing and when! there are times when there is a lot to be said for agressive driving ie in london if you do not go for it you will not get there you will be left for hours tryingto pull out into the main road . my local big city here is hannover it is large but the roads are well laid out and allthough relatively hard nosed drivers there are courtious and polite . there are less accidents on the german autobahn than anywhere,s motorways in europe however those that do happen tend to sadly be fatal for at least one driver involved so far in the 4 years ive lived in germany this time from the 400 strong regiment i am with 4 people i new have become statistics! germans drive using every bit of there ability and concentration you do really need to when your scooting along at 220kph and somebody pulls into the fast lane from the middle to pass a lorry passing a lorry hes only doing about 160kph! your soon up behind him! neil verdon 66sqr on irs 2.2typ4 my other car is nice on the autobahn as well passat vr6. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org