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Re: [T3] Purest Type 3 group? (lowering)

3 Notches in front will bring you into about -2 degrees of Caster... this is
opposite the +4 you want, so the car will wander severly in high winds and
bump steer on uneven pavement. If its smooth and Calm you wont notice this
as much.
> I regularly drove cars lowered 3 notches in front and 2 notches in the
> Heck, I even took one to Sears Point Raceway somewhat regularly when I was
> into VW's still. I never noticed anything that felt un-safe, and if
> anything, it felt SAFER as the center of gravity for the entire car was
> lowered. And yes, I have driven stock "tight" T3's with factory alignment
> settings before.

I always wonder how people say this 2 or 3 notches in the Front... 1 Notch =
~12 degrees which puts you bar right next to the bump stop, 2 and you may
just be able to get it on without removing the suspension stops.
2 notches down is 0 to -1 degress of caster... unstable.
> I think 2F/1R with 145/165's was always my favorite setting on drivers.
> was still good and they handled well. Good compromise IMO.
> 3f/2r would occasionally bottom out on big bumps and such, but that was
> to limited travel at that point and it was only bottoming out on the
> suspension stops just before a part of the chassis (usually frame horns)
> would drag.

Again... 36 degrees change in bar and how in the world do you even get it
in??  It would be resting firmly on the lower stop even if you could.
> On a personal nice stocker I would lower the front 1 notch to make the car
> sit level and reduce the front tire to fender lip gap. It also made it
> prone to understeer as it transferred more weight to the front tires.
> I have lowered many cars in my lifetime and none have had "dangerous
> handling characteristics for emergency situations". If anything, they
> handled better and therefor made it easier to avoid accidents.
> "I have seen some people remove the rubber stoppers to lower the car even
> more and this really exasperates the shock loads on the bearings and
> bushings in the beam which are so hard to obtain and replace."
> How do you figure this? Why would the shock loads be any different on
> parts if adequate suspension travel was present?

Because the shock is absorbed slowly if the torsion bar is allowed to absorb
it as it was designed.  If you slam the arm into the bump stop it slams the
arm against the needle bearing and bushing, and the needles actually stamp
themselves into the race on the arm, causing quick wear from then on. Every
front end on every lowered car Ive seen has been shot.

> "I've seen bent frame heads because the car bottomed out in a dip and hit
> the clamps."
> This was due to improper lowering technique's. Other wise known as a hack
> job. A properly done car won't do this.
> Maybe you have never driven a properly adjusted and set-up lowered car?

OK, youve really got to help me here, there are only 2 ways to lower, rotate
the lower torsion bars or dropped spindles and since there are so few
dropped spindles out there I think your referring to the bars.
your variable is How much do you lower?  Please give me a better
understanding of what you mean about a properly adjusted and set up lowering
> "If your car is a trailer queen or a sunny Sunday car on smooth streets
> lower away but for the daily driver, especially the highway car you
> won't be pleased with the high-speed handling and the suspension won't
> long."
> I drove my fastback for 3 hours straight (did have to stop for gas once)
> 110mph lowered 3 notches in front and 2 notches in the rear. It was rock
> solid and stable the whole time. It was very comfortable at that speed
> than the engine being at 4800rpm the entire time.

Again, a smooth highway on a clam day and your fine.  I drove the Purple
Passion and was very happy with how smooth it was, till I hit a seam in the
pavement on the off ramp.  Maybe Im just sensitized to poor highways with
all the potholes and heaving we have here in the Northeast in the winter,
our highways are much worse than in the West.
> "Those that know me know that I shudder at the thought of lowering any
> 3
> so let me put my reasons down on paper."
> If that makes you shudder, what does 6 notches in the front and 3 in the
> rear do to you? LOL
> That is where my 66 Fasty was set while I showed it. Yes, it was a trailer
> queen at that time and drove/rode horribly.
> We had to build ramp extensions that doubled the length of our trailer
> and then use 2x8x48 long boards after those just to get it on our trailer.
> It also required a floor jack jack handle to be carefully placed in the
> front suspension, then pryed down just to be able to remove the Porsche 2
> liter alloys with 195/50-15's from the fenderwell. I had to do this for
> every show because I would always pull one sides wheels and tires off and
> put mirrors under the car. License plate was KSNPVMT or Kissin' Pavement.
> I raised it up to about 3f/2r when I actually started driving it. :-P

Ill have a spare Front beam with me in Hershey this summer, I invite all to
add thier ideas  to the front end presentation, and I will in fact show you
how to lower... so Im always interested to learn how
others are getting by with what seems physical limitations to me.


> After reading back through my reply's to check for typo's/etc. I noticed
> that I should mention that "notches" means outer torsion bar splines. I
> always used the outer splines for a basic setting and used the inner/outer
> combo for fine tuning.
> -Patrick D.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> List info at http://www.vwtype3.org/list | mailto:gregm@vwtype3.org

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