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In a message dated 97-12-11 08:03:54 EST, jadney@vwtype3.org writes: << Is there any way that I can appropriately express my total revulsion at the thought of the destruction this does to the car? I have the feeling that people do it because they feel that it allows them to express some originality in their car. Well, perhaps it WAS original to someone, sometime, but it's now hackneyed and bad engineering. The response I usually get down to is usually, something along the lines of "But it's so COOL, Dude!" Well, if your idea of cool is poor handling, bump steer, and rediculous ground clearance to the point that it is no longer a useful vehicle, then I really have to part company. In the end it boils down to who do you choose to copy: Someone who carefully designed something that worked well or someone who designed something that looked "different." >> Thanks for sharing your opinion, Jim.........but, i personally find this type of "input" both offensive and inappropriate. There are individuals on this list who have lowered their cars for reasons other than it being "so COOL, Dude!". I personally wanted to be able to go around a curved road without having to slow to a near stop or feel as though Benny was goin to tip over. The small amount he was lowered sits him at the same height as many new cars are being produced stock. I don't feel he is "hackneyed" or "bad engineering", he's just not stock. Not all of us want to have bone-stock cars, and yes we do make modifications to personalize our cars. This is probably because "it's not just a car" to many of us, our cars are an extension of who we are. I have never to made any modifications to my car to make it impractical, i never will, but I have slightly customized it (and oh my god, it's not fuel injected). I do infact cringe when I see a "butchered" custom, but if is what the owner/driver wants, more power to him. It's one more volkswagon on the road that otherwise might not be. Jim, we all realize you have a plethera of type-3 knowledge and we appreciate you sharing with us, but please understand that we are all very different people here. Your comments give me that same sick feeling in my stomach as when I hear about books being banned from local libraries. If you have a negative experience you would like to share with the group about some particular type-3 modification, please share, but save the didactic rambling and trashing of other individuals' preferences for someplace else. It does not belong here. Thanks, Amanda & Benny ('69 sqrback who was also very offended) Return-Path: <type-3-errors@umich.edu> Received: from relay07.mail.aol.com (relay07.mail.aol.com [172.31.109.7]) by air17.mail.aol.com (v36.0) with SMTP; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:03:54 -0500 Received: from stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu [141.211.83.42]) by relay07.mail.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id IAA01882; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:03:40 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id IAA13245; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:03:30 -0500 (EST) Received: (from root@localhost) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with X.500 id IAA13238 for type-3-members@umich.edu; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:03:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from mail1.doit.wisc.edu (mail1.doit.wisc.edu [144.92.9.40]) by stayhungry.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.2) with ESMTP id IAA13227 for <type-3@umich.edu>; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 08:03:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from [144.92.180.141] by mail1.doit.wisc.edu id HAA77444 (8.8.6/50); Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:03:26 -0600 Message-Id: <199712111303.HAA77444@mail1.doit.wisc.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is <jadney@vwtype3.org> From: "Melissa & Jim" <jadney@vwtype3.org> To: type-3@umich.edu Date: Thu, 11 Dec 1997 07:04:07 -600 Subject: lowering Priority: normal X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54) Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit On 10 Dec 97, Keith Park wrote: > Not to mention that the handeling was TERRIBLE, it wandered all over the road in the > wind cause it had negative caster and you felt every bump. Is there any way that I can appropriately express my total revulsion at the thought of the destruction this does to the car? I have the feeling that people do it because they feel that it allows them to express some originality in their car. Well, perhaps it WAS original to someone, sometime, but it's now hackneyed and bad engineering. The response I usually get down to is usually, something along the lines of "But it's so COOL, Dude!" Well, if your idea of cool is poor handling, bump steer, and rediculous ground clearance to the point that it is no longer a useful vehicle, then I really have to part company. In the end it boils down to who do you choose to copy: Someone who carefully designed something that worked well or someone who designed something that looked "different." My wife now drives a 96 Taurus wagon. That was a car that was completely ruined when the stylists got hold of it. In the name of style they designed a rear window that provides almost no rear visibility, but it looks cool. It has seats that have lots of bolsters and a lumbar support and bells and whistles that make you go Ooh and Aah, but make your back sore in drives of more than an hour. It has a Cool stereo in the style of the car with a balance control that has arrows that point L and R and a fader control that is oriented L/R and has arrows that also point L/R (this control controls front/rear balance!) It has a rear window wiper control nicely labeled and lighted, but located where only the eyeball on your left knee can see it. All this was done in the name of style without thought to function. I believe Miles van der Rohe said "form follows function." Ford forgot that. If we forget that we end up with nice bookends for our driveways. I love these cars; I love how they drive and how they look and how they are economical and how they are useful. Don't settle for one out of four. Sorry, rant mode off. Jim --------------------------------------------------------------------- Melissa Kepner Jim Adney Laura Kepner-Adney jadney@vwtype3.org Madison, Wisconsin ---------------------------------------------------------------------